i'm not gung-ho about UBI anymore, but i will say this: you will not understand UBI until you understand the difference between work and employment
the same goes for any actual post-capitalist economy, as well: work is not the same thing as employment. there is plenty of work that never gets done because nobody's employing people to do it
remove *employment* from the list of things you need to survive, and you'll see a lot more *work* get done
any economic system that assumes most people don't intrinsically want to do meaningful work is empirically false and should not be taken seriously
"yeah but people are lazy and don't want to work unless we threaten them" — this myth originates from shitty employers, whom nobody wants to work for
@amydentata people like doing things and being useful. nobody likes sitting under flourescent lights all day clicking on excel spreadsheets or talking to angry people or whatever while their piss breaks are micromanaged
@amydentata years ago I translated an interview with one of Germany's richest people on UBI (which he is a strong proponent of, though more from a libertarian slant than a socialist one)
In it he brings up that whenever he talks about the subject people go "well but won't everyone just be lazy and not do ANYTHING" and said his response to that is always "would you?"
Which immediately murders that line of argument
@outie UBI is definitely more libertarian than socialist, as it retains the private sector and does not innately do anything to break up consolidation of capitalist power
@amydentata there's a particular strain of Libertarians that loves the idea because hey, suddenly we can just dismantle all redistributive measures and public services and any other govt assistance programs
the guy isn't quite so hardline but he does make the "models suggest UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than all other public assistance programs in x state" argument which is juuust on the verge of that line
UK welfare pol
@amydentata at the same time of course the UK is spending more money on enforcing welfare conditionality than is saved by the conditionality regime
that is, the UK is actively spending more money to systemically abuse disabled people's human rights (by UN assessment) than it would by just giving anyone who asks their benefits with minimal fuss
the cruelty is the point, etc
UK welfare pol
@outie yep same in the US. If you’re on SSI you are forbidden from having more than $2,000 in cash and assets. The marginally better program for disability requires you to have accumulated decades of work before you can collect anything, in other words “chronically ill need not apply”
@amydentata @outie I recently read this: https://medium.com/institute-for-the-future/universal-basic-assets-abb08ca2f0fc
Finally I don't have to be shy in my proposing a non-monetary universal basic *resource* income! XD :D
(I've always thought UBI was just perpetuating the existing system of money, but everyone was so adamant about it I just kind of sheepishly went along. Now they're starting to agree :')
(I think a lot of people still want money, though. I wonder if/when they'll talk about resource economy)
@amydentata Something I've found makes a lot of pro-capitalists hella uncomfortable is to talk about people who love doing 'gross' or undervalued jobs like cleaning or childcare.
My housemate loves cleaning; they find it soothing to have a clean living space, and it's good exercise. What they hate about *working* as a cleaner is entirely to do with the instability and the shitty treatment by management.
@amydentata There was a whole thing in the UK on how low-pay, insecure service jobs are more psychologically damaging than being unemployed and impoverished. Made so many pro-caps I had to deal with at the time super uncomfortable to even consider that capitalist employment can be bad for people.
@amydentata Work is good and good for you, as it turns out!
@amydentata I like how this holds true even within very narrow situations. Technical debt in software dev. Hell, *bugfixes* in software dev.