You’ve got a couple options when it comes to turning a profit:
- Underpay workers
- Overvalue the product
Modern capitalism does both (alongside a subset of the middle class that gets dramatically overpaid, such as programmers, and gratuitous expenditures such as salary bonuses). Whichever way you slice it, though, you get inflation and increasing inequality.
Yep! Once “everyone can code,” owners can finally do what they’ve always wanted to do: underpay programmers. https://switter.at/web/statuses/101868999452217767
@amydentata I do consider myself a socialist, and I kinda agree with that sentiment. I don't think the future we build, if we get a chance to build it, will look like anything that has come before it.
@amydentata this is probably my favorite irony of capitalism, like pretty much all of its supporters are people it definitely doesn't care about at all
@June the 1% has got its propaganda down pat
"Ecosocialist" doesn't really capture it, eh. I've had the same issue.
@SallyStrange Agreed. We haven’t had our cultural flashpoint yet.
I wonder what it will look like.
I think it will have to start at large scale, instead of a small scale system shoddily scaled up.
@diffractie I dunno, I think a truly “ecosystemic” economy could quite readily start small and scale up. We just haven’t figured it out yet, and/or capitalism keeps squashing it. Maybe we just need to weaken capitalism first
I just worry that as you scale up, problems appear.
Like how some game systems are okay at first and then late game you end up with things being broken. :P
Weaken capitalism first tho ofc.
My feeling is: universal income kicks the stranglehold capitalism has on people's lives.
But also I am incredibly nieve
@diffractie I’m slowly beginning to see UBI as a population wide poverty trap. I used to be all for it but I am increasingly skeptical.
@diffractie I think what we might have to do is, starting small, create alternate systems that make capitalism irrelevant. So people can like, wean themselves off of a capitalist-produced lifestyle.
@dredmorbius hmm, seems a bit different than what I’m talking about, though it does use a similar metaphor
@dredmorbius I didn’t know about this though so thanks for the link!
@amydentata It's an older, pre-Smithian school. I tend to follow ecological / biophysical / thermoeconomics (Georgescu-Roegen, Daly, Charles A.H. Hall), and Steve Keen, related, though somewhat his own thing.
Been reading some Marx finally, and there's at least some there there.
Social justice / equality is another element. Smith is far stronger on this than most people think, also J.S. Mill, Henry George, Amyarta Sen, Emma Rothschild (yes, one of them), and many other.
What's your view?
@amydentata Physiocrats are strong influences on mmany ecological economists. Hall (above) specifically pointed me at them.
See also Howard and Eugene Odum (brothers).
@dredmorbius I'm not well-read thanks to poverty and disability (have had to focus on other things) so I can't give you a synopsis in academic terms, unfortunately
@amydentata LibGen is your friend, as is the Internet Archive.
But in your own words is fine.
Most ideas have been around before, something I keep realising when I have some whackadoodle notion, then find well-established precedent. Sometimes decades after I'd first thought of them.
@amydentata i don't know why not. for socialism to function, there have to be sustainable, self-reinforcing ways of living.
@lyliawisteria I mean, that new thing we haven’t seen yet could potentially be socialism, but done in a way not possible before at scale
@amydentata it has always been possible. socialism does exist, just not in the nation states that explicitly call themselves socialist. or any nation state.
that's how you do a socialism!
@amydentata yO WELL SAID
@red_priest every ted talk ever: “what if we lie about the goal of capitalism”
@amydentata lmao whoop there it is
it's funny though, even though programmers are currently overpaid, that's why the tech industry is so excited to promote stuff like "everyone should know how to code!" and pushing lots of programming education, so that they can have a glut of people with the skills they need so they can pay less