I feel like there needs to be a concerted push to move all internet infrastructure into the control of the hands of the United Nations — currently the US controls too much.

Organisations such as IANA and ICANN are based in the US, which means they could see pressure to force domain registrars to comply with US laws. This is greatly worrying.

I don't have the political chops to push for this, but I'd happily sign any campaign.

pls not! infrastucture should be controled by it's users, not by some constructed entity having the authority to rule over others.

apolish nationalism. They are a threat to humanity. And yes, the UN is part in facilitating it.

@paulfree14 well, put it this way: the UN is a shitload better to control these organisations than the US. That is, these organisations should be stateless.

I'm not to deep into this topic, but just wanting to give an idea of existing projects that try to build a web controled by it's user.


OpenNIC is a user-owned and -controlled top-level Network Information Center that offers a non-national alternative to traditional Top-Level Domain (TLD) registries such as #ICANN.

' is a free, open and neutral, mostly wireless telecommunications community network, with over 33,000 active nodes and about 46,000 km of wireless links...

@paulfree14 @mistressemelia Have you considered running a #tor hidden, and #i2p service.  Self-authenticating endpoints, *practically* uncensorable. Also... everyone knows how to use tor browser, so user adoption is easy!

@boneidol @paulfree14 "I'm sorry, did you just go tell me to ____ myself?"

This is how I feel every time some suggests I use TOR or similar. Like, I'm a fairly technical user, I build software for a living, and I don't really get TOR, so how the hell are non-tech people going to understand it?

@mistressemelia @paulfree14 a tor hidden service would protect you from DNS hassles.  Users go and grab the tor browser bundle and just use that. ".onion" addresses are well known to be associated with #tor, and the Tor project has loads of mind share and documentation. 
For example I'm a big fan of http://uj3wazyk5u4hnvtk.onion  ..  pirate bay is blocked on many #UK ISP ... #meh!  
I wasn't suggesting that your primary point for engaging with users be a tor hidden service, but having a resilient censor resistant service sounds  ok ? 
Obviously deploying onions has its risks, but they are mostly fixable 

@boneidol @paulfree14 is there a guide to registering a nice TLD with TOR anywhere? I'd love to see that.

@mistressemelia @paulfree14 
You don't register a name.  the onion address is a hash of the private key of the site. So it's a question of generating enough keys until one looks  pretty.
@mistressemelia @paulfree14 the hash of the public key for the site,  is looked up in a DHT, to get the routing information, same as a bittorrent magnet link finds the file.  But with some anonymity layers thrown in too. It's super interesting crypto/P2P design. 
Another cool project #i2p has lots of similarities 

@boneidol @paulfree14 with both of these, we do still need domain names of some sort so that people can find content easily. It's great if the domain name is just a pretty on top, but it's essential for non-technical users. Same with search.

@mistressemelia @paulfree14 for sure. However once the address is published it can never be removed. We can print the onion on t-shirts and spray paint on walls. It will always work.

@boneidol @MistressEmelia
this page contains instroduction to install ones own home server that can also run as a #meshnet. The standart installation is through using #tor for domain registration.

it's developed by @bob
I guess he can also point you to a easy guide for registering #TDL via #TOR

@MistressEmelia @boneidol @paulfree14 .onion is an explicitly reserved TLD. Or are you talking about something else?

thought in any case it's also important to think about emergency situations.
Here an example that spontaneously erupted in the US after hurricane in #puertorico
Not related directly to #ICANN but showing that we can rethink the current structure and build something different
*wanting to say we don't need to keep the status quo as a base for finding a solution

@MistressEmelia @paulfree14 or better still, decentralized. There is absolutely no need for a central naming authority.

* I agree with you that the US is holding to much power when it comes to internet infrastructure.

@MistressEmelia If you don't have the political chops to do something, may I suggest you work to obtain them or work to convince someone who has them? I mean talking on mastodon about is just one way to create awareness and that's good! But talking directly to advocacy NGO's or political parties would do more, especially if it's urgent. There's a lot of people out there who probably already agree with you but simply don't know enough about IT to see the problem.

@laura the most I can do right now is talk about it, I'm hoping someone on mastodon can package it for politics, then I'd support that.

I'm too busy trying to support sex workers and make a living to really do much more.

China, Russia, and India are all on the UN Security council. You'll forgive me for thinking UN control of the Internet could only make it worse.

That said, the tech is open; they're welcome to offer a competing network or national networks; Russia and others seem keen to try it.

@cykros it may not be ideal, but I only know of the UN as being stateless, I don't know of another way to make something not controlled by any single state.

example for stateless society, violence mentioned 

@cykros @MistressEmelia
#UN: their foundation is based on #nationalism.

Just cause of it's current significy in relation to the geopolitics in the 'middle east' as an example:
#DFNS (democratic federation of northern #Syria) also known as #Rojava. They are building stateless democracy...just facing a ethnic cleansing with support of the 'international community' conducted by #turkey and their proxies.

resources as commons 

@cykros @MistressEmelia

when it's in general about organizing resources free from the concept of states and property I can recoment the book 'patterns of commening'

It's an introduction into organizing resources as #commons, some historic context and studying about existing examples...

The first couple of pages are already enough to get an underatanding of it.

resources as commons 

@cykros @MistressEmelia
yes. there's also a free pdf. (if you want I can look it up for you)
In case you think of getting a copy you could ask your local libary and/or get it here:

resources as commons 

@paulfree14 @cykros that site has an invalid SSL certificate.. I'm not sure the local library would stock an english copy (I'm in berlin)

resources as commons 

@cykros @MistressEmelia
ooh. :(

do you know where to get in #Berlin a copy of the book 'patterns of commoning'?
Are there some floating around as a #commons? :-)
thank you!

@MistressEmelia This comes up a bit, but it's always been shot down by the US State Department. Who are well practiced at fucking things up with root servers.

@MistressEmelia Well ... ICANN was formally transferred, but, still based in the US and more importantly the companies managing the major top level domains are still under US control:

Verisign owns .com and .net and that gives a tremendous amount of control to US authorities

@MistressEmelia Full disclosure, I was once a member of ICANN, through their ICANN at large project. I can tell you that is a snake pit from hell

@mistressemelia The last time I heard UN plans for internet stuff they were horrible, so no let's not do that. Better to move IANA and ICANN to say Iceland

@tomas apart from the fact that sex work is illegal in iceland.

@mistressemelia Yeah, and in most of the west. I admit I'm a bit out of the loop, but last I heard Iceland had passed somewhat decent laws around electronic communications. I trust them more than the U.S. when it comes to DNS not being messed with more than necessary

@tomas yeah, if they decriminalised sex work, which at present they actually state they can't enforce the criminalisation of, then they'd be ideal.

@mistressemelia Even if they don't decriminalize, I'm not sure they have FOSTA-style legislation. The pirates have some parliamentary power, so root zone shenanigans is at least less likely. Just don't get a .is domain

@MistressEmelia may not be the better solution. The UN is even more dysfunctional organization than ICANN. The Internet is already in the process of regionalisation (China and Russia are making their own silos), but I think that the US is a better watchman still than international bodies.

@valeg okay, let me be clear: I'm advocating for a stateless control — which I thought was the UN, but obviously it's not. Like I said, I don't have the political chops.

@MistressEmelia This won't help.

The UN is not immune to *libido dominandi* , the lust to dominate. Indeed, a large portion of its delegates represent oppressive states that abridge some of the natural rights of their citizens. Their "rulership" of the Internet would be far less benign.

The best solution is to keep building distributed privacy enabled things that make censorship or spying too expensive to contemplate.


You don't like US policy now, so you want to move control to the UN. What do you do when you don't like UN policy?

The problem is centralized control, and there are no easy solutions.

Tough call... Not long ago, having U.S. influence on these was good - helped keep control out of the hands of repressive govts & dictators. Now that we're sliding that way, though... ugh.

@MistressEmelia Six of one, half dozen of the other. When the UN allows Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia or others on the Human Rights Council, it makes you go hrm...

Also most of the UN isn't exactly in favor of free enterprise/speech

Do you really want say China, Russia or North Korea getting a say in your internet?

@MistressEmelia But there are way many worse jurisdictions out there than the US’s one.

Terrible idea. The United States is the only country with bona fide free speech. If it was in the hands of the UN you can guarantee censorship occurring quickly. Many love the idea of censoring "hate speech", until the laws bite them in the rear.

@MistressEmelia while I agree with you that the US has way to much control over this I fail to see how the United Nations could ever do a better job? With countries like Russia and China (and the US) having unchecked veto abilities how could censorship possibly get better?

@MistressEmelia, I hope eventually it'll be practical to base things of #mesh networks and more or less replace the current internet that way - no government or central control and minimal infrastructure. #OLPC and #FreedomBox are interesting projects headed in that direction.

@trm my biggest concern is in security — I'm still... wary, especially after the whole Tor compromised nodes thing:

I have no real way of verifying that my exit nodes aren't tampered with; At least with big companies there's someone to be liable.

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